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Thread: Interactive infographic displaying the casualties of our drone program in Pakistan

  1. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
    Tojai's Avatar
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    #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by katinahat View Post
    But it's not 1 in 4 that we kill. It's 1 in 4 that we have killed over the last 9 years, when drone and tactical missile technology was significantly less advanced than it is now. If you look at the last 5 years, the numbers are significantly lower. I think it's shitty that we kill civilians, but how would it be better to send human pilots? There's all of this ruckus against drones when what people should be upset about is the people saying, "Okay, that intel is good enough. Send 'em in." The issue is NOT the drones themselves. Drones are both cost-efficient and efficient in terms of manpower.
    I agree the problem isn't drones vs. human pilots, but rather the killing of civilians regardless who (or what) is doing the killing. Drones are an effective tool, I agree. It is the task that is an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by WarSnoopy View Post
    Don't be obtuse. We weren't even indiscriminately bombing most nations in Africa before he took over. He's expanded the program something like 400% and brought in entire new countries to lay waste too.

    Obama's administration, at least, considers fighting age males in the vicinity of their strikes and attacks to be combatants. They changed that legal ruling a couple of years ago when they killed a couple of Americans. Don't be his cheerleader on this. If 75% of the victims are considered "combatants" rest assured not only are Americans included in those numbers, but also people who we're priveleged enough to be born male and between the age of 17-45 and also just happened to be in the same area as their HVTs.
    And that (conveniently deciding who was a combatant and who was not) was happening before Obama's administration as well - look at Fallujah and who was allowed to leave and who was considered a combatant and thus not. I'm definitely not trying to be his cheerleader and I HATE that he has not followed up on promises made our taken more action to get us out of these ridiculous wars that we had no business being in in the first place. What I am saying is that this is a problem that encompasses more than one administration, it's a larger problem than just one bad guy and should be treated as such.
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by WarSnoopy View Post
    Right on the website.
    I couldn't find it anywhere. Can you link me to it? I guess it didn't show up for me

    And if you're saying the news articles at the bottom are the numbers, I am skeptical of it's accuracy.
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojai View Post
    I agree the problem isn't drones vs. human pilots, but rather the killing of civilians regardless who (or what) is doing the killing. Drones are an effective tool, I agree. It is the task that is an issue.



    And that (conveniently deciding who was a combatant and who was not) was happening before Obama's administration as well - look at Fallujah and who was allowed to leave and who was considered a combatant and thus not. I'm definitely not trying to be his cheerleader and I HATE that he has not followed up on promises made our taken more action to get us out of these ridiculous wars that we had no business being in in the first place. What I am saying is that this is a problem that encompasses more than one administration, it's a larger problem than just one bad guy and should be treated as such.
    No. It goes further than being a combatant and how they view what qualifies.

    Among the linguistic gymnastics embraced by Obama as the Pentagon struggled to deal with the inevitable rise in civilian casualties resulting from a massive increase in unmanned aerial drone strikes against suspected terrorists in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen was a deceptive redefinition of the term "militant." In an effort to minimize official civilian death tolls from these strikes, in which hundreds of innocent people have been killed in Pakistan alone, several administration officials told the Times that the administration is effectively counting "all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants," barring "explicit" posthumous intelligence proving their innocence.
    Report: Obama Redefines 'Militant' to Avoid Counting Civilian Drone Deaths
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/wo...ewanted=1&_r=1
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Katayoun View Post
    I couldn't find it anywhere. Can you link me to it? I guess it didn't show up for me

    And if you're saying the news articles at the bottom are the numbers, I am skeptical of it's accuracy.
    Due to the way the website codes its inhouse pop-ups no I cant link it. Go through the motions again and let it show the dropping lines on the timeline, then click on the "Info" tab and they show their citations and other sites that track this info for them.
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by WarSnoopy View Post
    I think we're saying the same thing. If we say "all military age males are combatants" (similar again to what happened in Fallujah btw) then that is what qualifies as a combatant and the numbers will reflect as such. All I'm saying is Obama's administration is not the first to do this and sadly I am absolutely sure will not be the last.

    Morally I do not agree with that definition at all and I think it's disgusting.
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