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Thread: Shooting in Vegas

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    Duh Apologies for bad wording

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdizzle View Post
    They are not assault rifles. That is a made up scary term. AR means armalite rifle.
    My apologies.
    I used that term for ease of description as that is what most people call the AR or AK style rifle. You are right, I should have been more precise.
    (It is much the same when people called the experts in my trials ballistics experts as opposed to firearms experts. Wrong term but part of common usage.)

    I happen to enjoy firing an AR-15 at a range. Quite a nice, stress relieving hobby and not the least bit scary. I so wish people were able to see that. After horrific events like this these rifles are always maligned and I should not have perpetuated that.
    Thanks for the correction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdizzle View Post
    They are not assault rifles. That is a made up scary term. AR means armalite rifle.
    Straight up, one of my biggest pet peeves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twistertwin View Post
    Straight up, one of my biggest pet peeves.
    Again, apologies. I have shown the edit in my post to "assault weapons".
    Since that is the term used in legislation, that is the term I should have used. To be clear, I did not think "AR" stood for Assault Rifle. (Didn't actually know anyone did.)
    I happen to be a fan of that particular rifle. (To be clear, I am shooting paper targets at a range, nothing else.)
    In fact, on the half door to the room that contains my trash can I have the target of my first use of an AR-15 (at a target at a range). I was quite impressed with it, myself and it covered my failed attempt to remove 6 layers of paint
    I have not fired an AK but hear equally positive comments when fired (at a target at a range).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matchbox View Post
    My God.

    A Vegas music festival has gone very, very badly wrong

    More than fifty people dead...that’s APPALLING.
    I just can't understand the type of hate someone has to have in their heart to do something like this. I believe this has to be the result of mental illness otherwise I don't know how to imagine someone choosing to create this type of hate and fear in the world. It is truly scary to think that no where nowadays is safe to be.
    I do believe that the work that I am doing as a therapist will hopefully help people destigmatize mental illness and help make this a normal part of the conversation.
    I feel like all I can do is continue to spread love and positivity in the world and continue believing in the good of people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdizzle View Post
    it's not the rate of fire, it's the ability to not have to pull the trigger over and over (which obviously makes it faster) like you said. And it definitely matters who the user is, I just used the numbers of above because Orlando kept being compared to Vegas. I imagine DH could shoot WAAAY more rounds in a short period with our AR than I could. He's had more experience, he's faster at reload, he's got more strength, etc. etc.

    the problem people seem to have with bump stocks though seems to be that the shooter was able to do more damage because he could shoot more rounds in a shorter period of time.
    Maybe I'm off here but isn't that the same concern with automatic weapons? They do more damage because they shoot more rounds faster? I always thought that's why automatic weapons were banned but I admit I don't really know the history behind it.

    I mean I get it that technically machine guns are about a very specific type of weapon (one trigger pull putting multiple rounds downrange) but I also understand why people say they simulate/mimic/approximate automatic weapons because the difference seems almost academic. I've seen ads for trigger cranks saying they can achieve firing rates of 900 rpm or about 150 rounds in 10 seconds ... of course the people who make them have an incentive to make them sound cool so maybe that's off. But I think that's why people don't like bump stocks etc.; at least for me maybe they're within the letter of the law but they definitely don't seem within the spirit. I get it; it's not an automatic but I would also say maybe it's not semi automatic either because the shooter is not having to pull the trigger separately for each round.

    I will say it's kind of bizarre that someone with no real experience with weapons (according to his family), of average build and older age had the man power and strength to shoot like he did for as long as he did. and even if he changed weapons, he would have had to have been fast as fuck at doing so, and then reloading.... It's kind of sick but DH and I were talking about it and I asked him if he thought he could achieve that. He said yes, given the amount of weapons and loading and whatever, but someone like me? I could never. so unless this guy had this whole secret life of training with these weapons its just.... bizarre.
    It's definitely really creepy to think about! I thought I read somewhere that he amassed all these weapons over a period of about a year so maybe he had some time to practice or something. Maybe it's easier when you have a bunch of weapons to swap out? It boggles my mind to think about ... bizarre for sure.


    Quote Originally Posted by LifeHappens View Post
    I read an article about the original purpose of the bump stocks. It stated that it was designed for someone who had difficulty with repeatedly engaging the trigger mechanism, such as someone with a disability.
    I was unaware that we had a lot of disabled people with a desire to rapidly fire **assault rifles.
    It also said that the shooter has a lot of control over the speed at which the rounds are discharged. Since it is not an automatic weapon, there is much more control.
    While I am all for equal access to everything for everyone that is disabled, it sounds.... well, who knows.

    Maybe this device was invented and then the need for it was supplemental information.

    ** Please substitute the phrase "assault weapon" for "assault rifle"
    That's interesting! I read an interview with the guy who invented them (and it mentioned a later company modified the design) but nothing about being created for people with disabilities. Do you still have a link handy by chance? I love educating myself more about guns because I still think I have tons to learn.

    Of course I could be totally off base here, but after watching videos of people using them they look WAY harder to handle to me than a regular semi automatic gun. But I don't have a physical disability and I've also never used a bump stock, so I guess I couldn't say for sure. But definitely not something I look at and go "wow this would totally help someone who has difficulty handling a gun."
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    ATF- Slide Fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Tojai View Post
    That's interesting! I read an interview with the guy who invented them (and it mentioned a later company modified the design) but nothing about being created for people with disabilities. Do you still have a link handy by chance? I love educating myself more about guns because I still think I have tons to learn.

    Of course I could be totally off base here, but after watching videos of people using them they look WAY harder to handle to me than a regular semi automatic gun. But I don't have a physical disability and I've also never used a bump stock, so I guess I couldn't say for sure. But definitely not something I look at and go "wow this would totally help someone who has difficulty handling a gun."
    To be more accurate, I should not have used the term “disabled” I should have used the phrase “limited hand mobility” in my initial post.
    My apologies for my inaccuracy.

    Here is the letter from the ATF to Slide Fire. That is the reference you will see in lots of media.

    https://www.slidefire.com/downloads/BATFE.pdf
    “Your letter advises that the stock (referenced in this reply as a "bump-stock ") is intended to assist persons whose hands have limited mobility to "bump-fire" an AR-15 type rifle.”

    Here is a Washington Post summary.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.95dcabb7a5ed

    Since I don’t want people to say I am picking a left or right wing media outlet, here is one from the UK and from Las Vegas.

    “Bump stocks were originally intended to help people with limited hand mobility fire a semi-automatic without the individual trigger pulls required.”
    NRA backs regulation of 'bump stock' device used by Las Vegas gunman | The Independent

    “"Bump stocks" originally were intended to help people with limited hand mobility fire a semi-automatic without the individual trigger pulls required. ”
    https://lasvegassun.com/news/2017/oc...ssory-used-in/
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeHappens View Post
    To be more accurate, I should not have used the term “disabled” I should have used the phrase “limited hand mobility” in my initial post.
    My apologies for my inaccuracy.

    Here is the letter from the ATF to Slide Fire. That is the reference you will see in lots of media.

    https://www.slidefire.com/downloads/BATFE.pdf
    “Your letter advises that the stock (referenced in this reply as a "bump-stock ") is intended to assist persons whose hands have limited mobility to "bump-fire" an AR-15 type rifle.”

    Here is a Washington Post summary.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.95dcabb7a5ed

    Since I don’t want people to say I am picking a left or right wing media outlet, here is one from the UK and from Las Vegas.

    “Bump stocks were originally intended to help people with limited hand mobility fire a semi-automatic without the individual trigger pulls required.”
    NRA backs regulation of 'bump stock' device used by Las Vegas gunman | The Independent

    “"Bump stocks" originally were intended to help people with limited hand mobility fire a semi-automatic without the individual trigger pulls required. ”
    https://lasvegassun.com/news/2017/oc...ssory-used-in/
    Oh that's really cool, thanks! I swear I read a Washington Post article but it didn't mention that.

    It's interesting how they directly say it's meant to bypass the individual trigger pull required for each round. I really never thought much about how a disability could relate to 2nd amendment rights.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tojai View Post
    Oh that's really cool, thanks! I swear I read a Washington Post article but it didn't mention that.

    It's interesting how they directly say it's meant to bypass the individual trigger pull required for each round. I really never thought much about how a disability could relate to 2nd amendment rights.
    There have been at least a handful of cases where guns have been sold and registered to owners who are legally blind, so it doesn't sound like disability makes a great deal of difference? If being too blind to drive doesn't mean you're too blind to shoot...

    In other news, the FBI is asking for help to figure this out
    Accensum qui pedicat urit mentulam.
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    I just got back from Vegas last Sunday. I was not there during the shooting. There a beautiful memorial by the Las Vegas sign that I was able to go see. Vegas is hurting but people are supporting each other and its really beautiful to see.
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