thoughts on healthcare bill

[BubMunkeyBles]

Originally Posted by kensington Please, Read it again... I said I would and could deal with my own trash... You suggested an unrealistic scenario... Since I don't work and don't have an office. But, out back on my land, I have a fire pit, and I deal with my own trash... everyday. I really do. I know what to do with garbage, glass, plastics, and paper... I was raised by people who lived through the depression. I don't need a trash man. If we are talking about those who don't want to pay for it, not getting it... I'm down with that. That is all I have been saying... I guess if you want to think of every possible scenario I could have to pay for or deal with... OK. But, I think I've made my point. You've made yours... I still think this is BILL wrong. Also... I'm willing to see teachers have decent benefits... But I don't want to pay for their abortions... NONE... I believe it is life. It is a violation of my moral conscience to be told if Susie gets pregnant and does not make enough money to live nicely with a child, I should pay to kill that baby for her. NO... and HECK NO. I would not abort a baby for ANY reason, including rape, incest or birth defect. And I should not have to pay for someone else to do so. And I will shout that to my dying day.

I'm not even going to address the abortion thing because I am torn and really don't know how I feel. But they took abortion out of the bill anyways.

And like I said, I understand what you're saying. I do. It's not that I don't understand how people feel about it and WHY they feel the way they do. And I'm sure they're justified to that opinion, they work hard to have jobs that provide insurance etc.

The bill is okay, its not going to solve everything, and truthfully I believe in socialized medicine over the stupid bill, even with a higher tax amount. I think it works well in other modernized countries and could here too if Americans could look at the bigger picture. At least then tax payers are getting medical care also and can choose to pay for private insurance if they want more. I think its disgusting that the US is supposed to be the best medically, but because of poor access to health care maternal and fetal death rates are higher than other countries. Just my feelings. I don't know how people can claim to want to help others but its okay that they die because they can't afford medical care.

[JLTsChief]

Originally Posted by kensington There has been NO confirmed breakdown of cost per taxpayer or tax bracket even... they haven't bothered to get that far yet.

Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up. I just wanted to make sure I was getting the information to make as unbiased an opinion on this. I obviously have very much to learn. Thanks.

[kensington]

Originally Posted by BubMunkeyBles I'm not even going to address the abortion thing because I am torn and really don't know how I feel. But they took abortion out of the bill anyways. And like I said, I understand what you're saying. I do. It's not that I don't understand how people feel about it and WHY they feel the way they do. And I'm sure they're justified to that opinion, they work hard to have jobs that provide insurance etc. The bill is okay, its not going to solve everything, and truthfully I believe in socialized medicine over the stupid bill, even with a higher tax amount. I think it works well in other modernized countries and could here too if Americans could look at the bigger picture. At least then tax payers are getting medical care also and can choose to pay for private insurance if they want more. I think its disgusting that the US is supposed to be the best medically, but because of poor access to health care maternal and fetal death rates are higher than other countries. Just my feelings. I don't know how people can claim to want to help others but its okay that they die because they can't afford medical care.

Did they take abortion out of the bill? Completley? For any reason? Are you sure?

[Amy]

Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding the health care bill, I don't really understand what problems people have with it.

The public option is not socialized healthcare, it's an option for people (who will still pay for their own insurance) who don't already have insurance through their employer, or who have been denied because of preexisting conditions, or what have you. You don't have to switch insurance providers, you don't have to pay for other people's insurance. If more people are insured, it should drive down the costs of health care, because people who don't have insurance often go to the ER when they have a mild to moderate illness that would have been handled much more effectively (and cheaper) if they had called up a doctor and made an appointment versus seeking treatment at the ER. Then, they often aren't able to pay their bills, which falls on the tax payer and hospitals, who increase costs of treatment, and thus insurance companies.

Am I completely wrong in understanding it this way?

For all of you who are against it- how do you feel about Tricare? Tricare is government run health insurance. Maybe we should do away with it, as well. We can all fend for ourselves, and pray for Jesus to heal us.

[BubMunkeyBles]

Originally Posted by kensington Did they take abortion out of the bill? Completley? For any reason? Are you sure?

99% sure that's what I read. Because they knew it wasn't going to pass, lol.
House passes health care reform bill - CNN.com Here it says there was an ammendment to remove abortion except in cases of incest, rape and potential death of the mother. It does say its for the public health option (so the insurance company part I am assuming).

[kensington]

Originally Posted by BubMunkeyBles 99% sure that's what I read. Because they knew it wasn't going to pass, lol. House passes health care reform bill - CNN.com Here it says there was an ammendment to remove abortion except in cases of incest, rape and potential death of the mother. It does say its for the public health option (so the insurance company part I am assuming).

Ahhh yes... I see. So, they did not take it completely out. It's still in there in some way. That's what I thought.

[kensington]

Originally Posted by Amy Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding the health care bill, I don't really understand what problems people have with it. The public option is not socialized healthcare, it's an option for people (who will still pay for their own insurance) who don't already have insurance through their employer, or who have been denied because of preexisting conditions, or what have you. You don't have to switch insurance providers, you don't have to pay for other people's insurance. If more people are insured, it should drive down the costs of health care, because people who don't have insurance often go to the ER when they have a mild to moderate illness that would have been handled much more effectively (and cheaper) if they had called up a doctor and made an appointment versus seeking treatment at the ER. Then, they often aren't able to pay their bills, which falls on the tax payer and hospitals, who increase costs of treatment, and thus insurance companies. Am I completely wrong in understanding it this way? For all of you who are against it- how do you feel about Tricare? Tricare is government run health insurance. Maybe we should do away with it, as well. We can all fend for ourselves, and pray for Jesus to heal us.

Is this comment meant for all those who don't support this bill or just a snark at the Christians who don't?

[mrs.s]

Okay, I gotta go, and get my homework done, but I did want to attempt to answer JT's question.

Originally Posted by JLTsChief Can you link me to where you found this, I legitimately am very interested in this and would love to know more. Thanks!

Originally Posted by kensington There has been NO confirmed breakdown of cost per taxpayer or tax bracket even... they haven't bothered to get that far yet.

Hmmm..not quite. It's not in stone, I don't think however, here is a link I found with the proposed amount mandated for some employers/employees.

The House Health Care Bill: The Mandates » The Foundry

It looks as if though depending upon what situation your in, whether you meet you're employers premiums, you're uninsured, etc you would get taxed differently. However if you do the math on the amount that you are being taxed, you're not going to have pay $200 extra for another's person coverage. From what I'm gathering, if anything certain people would have to pay a certain amount, you wouldn't. Basically, you are not going to have to pay something ridiculous like, 20 percent of your biweekly paycheck to another person's healthcare. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is how I'm interpreting it.

Originally Posted by kensington Yep... I noted (ETA) that you could sit here all day and come up with "Pay or deal" scenarios... But, what's the point? That would just be a tug of war. I'd like to hear something good about the bill rather than having my thinking tore down. Got any good information on the BILL? I haven't seen any yet to date. But, I'm out.. I am taking a coffee break and maybe watching my DVR'd shows from last night. Of course, that is after watching the Headlines to see what clown show the WhiteHouse is putting on today! You know, I could get behind Obama... in many ways... If he'd just toss out that goofy Nancy Pelosi... LOL. TTYL.

To the bolded: Duly noted. The reasoning why I pointed out the thinking, is that it's logic like yours, and others that may have prevented, or will prevent, people from receiving adequate healthcare. Kwim? Also, I did provide some info on the bill above. It is a 1000-plus page document, but you can go to some sites and at least read it. I have skimmed through a few pages myself, and there is a crapload of provisions.

Also, yes, the abortion coverage has been booted, except for situations in rape and incest, and from my understanding, this will only get covered depending upon whether or not your insurance company deems it necessary.

On that note, gotta go! lol. Homework is calling!

[Amy]

Originally Posted by kensington Is this comment meant for all those who don't support this bill or just a snark at the Christians who don't?

Actually, it was prompted by this:

Originally Posted by kensington Jesus didn't need healthcare, and neither did anyone who ever knew him. He healed them all. But, He did not rob Peter to heal Paul. He went fishing when he was called on to pay taxes. He took care of his own needs and never went to the Roman Government to ask for anything. None of his disciples did either. NONE. They took not one tax dollar from the people. And some of them had health issues... John was put in Boiling Oil... Peter was crucified upside down. Paul was blind. John lived to be very old and never got SS or Medicare. Since you asked.

I have no problem with Christians.

[Amy]

Originally Posted by *skittles* I have a huge problem with the fines being too low and the cost being prohibitive to the average joe. You're going to have a lot of people still choosing to stay uninsured until a horrible situation happens...because preexisting conditions will not keep people from obtaining insurance, this whole system is going to fall apart. Its going to cost us a fortune. The fines need to be much much much more severe for employers and individuals.

What are the fines? I remember thinking that as well. The fines would be lower than you would have been paying for health insurance for a few months, are they not? Only several hundred dollars?