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Thread: Tell me all your thoughts on God

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    #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matchbox View Post
    Thank you.

    I’ve had a look at it, and as far as I’m able to tell the Word of Wisdom just sounds like general good sense. I wouldn’t last two weeks (I like coffee too much, every time I quit smoking I take it up again...and now I’m honestly curious where something like yerba mate would fit in; I don’t expect you to be able to answer, I’m just thinking) but I can respect that as a guideline.

    I’m assuming that Mormons are one of those groups who take communion with very slightly dodgy juice. For us it has to be “very slightly dodgy wine” instead, juice is a no-go, but your rules are very clear on wine! Am I right? What does your version of the communion ritual look like?
    Communion (sacrament) is definitely taken with water in LDS churches. Sister can give more detail.


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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Matchbox View Post
    Thank you.

    I’ve had a look at it, and as far as I’m able to tell the Word of Wisdom just sounds like general good sense. I wouldn’t last two weeks (I like coffee too much, every time I quit smoking I take it up again...and now I’m honestly curious where something like yerba mate would fit in; I don’t expect you to be able to answer, I’m just thinking) but I can respect that as a guideline.

    I’m assuming that Mormons are one of those groups who take communion with very slightly dodgy juice. For us it has to be “very slightly dodgy wine” instead, juice is a no-go, but your rules are very clear on wine! Am I right? What does your version of the communion ritual look like?
    Things like Yerba Mate and like... Kombucha and other similar "grey area" things are up to each member's discretion.

    The ordinance comparable to communion is called Sacrament, for us. We use broken bread (and other items as needed for allergies/dietary needs) and water. In countries where potable water is scarce, juice or milk or... Coke... whatever safe, non-alcoholic beverage is convenient, may be used in place of water. The prayer used to bless the item would be altered to say the name of the liquid in place of the usual "water." In sequence, the bread is blessed and broken (usually by young men 16+), then passed to the entire congregation (boys 12+ pass it in trays), then the water is blessed and passed (we use tiny plastic cups, no goblet-sharing). The Sacrament prayers are two of the very, very few prayers recited word-for-word in our religion.
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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by rayfinkle View Post
    Sister, while we're asking questions and because I don't want to ask my husband's Momo family (who I will forever defend and even for a while defended this), why do Mormons say they are Christian?
    Short answer: Because we believe in and follow Jesus Christ. The full name of the church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and one of our most quoted scriptures says, "We talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophecy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins."

    I think the most common objection to our "Christianity" is that we believe in faith and works, rather than a "saved-by-Grace" theology. Also the Book of Mormon's existence bothers people, since Revelation says nothing should be added to it (Revelation is not chronologically last in the Bible, so I've never really understood this one), the fact that we believe in living prophets in the world right now, and because we are non-trinitarian (God and Jesus being separate people). I dunno, there are a lot of arguments against us being Christians and I honestly don't really mind if people think I'm not, though I firmly assert that I am. Hopefully my behavior shows what I believe well enough that I needn't worry about titles.
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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSisterWife View Post
    Short answer: Because we believe in and follow Jesus Christ. The full name of the church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and one of our most quoted scriptures says, "We talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophecy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins."

    I think the most common objection to our "Christianity" is that we believe in faith and works, rather than a "saved-by-Grace" theology. Also the Book of Mormon's existence bothers people, since Revelation says nothing should be added to it (Revelation is not chronologically last in the Bible, so I've never really understood this one), the fact that we believe in living prophets in the world right now, and because we are non-trinitarian (God and Jesus being separate people). I dunno, there are a lot of arguments against us being Christians and I honestly don't really mind if people think I'm not, though I firmly assert that I am. Hopefully my behavior shows what I believe well enough that I needn't worry about titles.
    If faith and works isn’t Christian, then I’ll be joining you in the heathen corner. Should I bring cake?

    Honestly though, as I have always understood it works are something that you do because you have deep faith. Saying you believe is easy; anyone can say that, not really feel it and then sit on their proverbial ass for the rest of their life waiting for heaven because they think they’ve ticked that box. Living up to what that belief means and using it to help others...this is a bigger commitment. If you didn’t take your faith seriously, you would never want to make the effort and commit to the work.

    You say something. Following through to dosomething is a demonstration that you truly meant what you said. Someone who truly meant it would want to follow through.


    One last question...

    I know you’re musically inclined. The most visible “Mormon” thing I know of is the Tabernacle Choir. Is music a big part of Mormon religious life in general? What role does it play?
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Matchbox View Post
    If faith and works isn’t Christian, then I’ll be joining you in the heathen corner. Should I bring cake?

    Honestly though, as I have always understood it works are something that you do because you have deep faith. Saying you believe is easy; anyone can say that, not really feel it and then sit on their proverbial ass for the rest of their life waiting for heaven because they think they’ve ticked that box. Living up to what that belief means and using it to help others...this is a bigger commitment. If you didn’t take your faith seriously, you would never want to make the effort and commit to the work.

    You say something. Following through to dosomething is a demonstration that you truly meant what you said. Someone who truly meant it would want to follow through.


    One last question...

    I know you’re musically inclined. The most visible “Mormon” thing I know of is the Tabernacle Choir. Is music a big part of Mormon religious life in general? What role does it play?
    Developing talents is huge. My mom is a well-known composer of LDS music (although a lot of it is used by other churches as well, she tries to keep most of it fairly generic-Christian in theme so it can be more generally used) so music has always been a HUGE part of my religious life. The church highly, highly encourages the pursuit of education, participation in the community, and finding and developing individual talents, be they music, art, writing, sports, public speaking, whatever. MoTab is amazing and I love them. We have lots of music in our meetings; we consider it one major way to increase the spirituality of gospel learning. I teach the kids ages 18mo-11 music during their "Sunday School" (we call it Primary) every week. I love it so much.
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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Matchbox View Post
    Honestly though, as I have always understood it works are something that you do because you have deep faith.
    I agree that works are something you do because you have deep faith, but as a Christian (in my opinion) I believe that good works are not a "salvation issue". We can try to live by the Bible, care for others, and do good works and as followers of Christ we should. But we are all born sinners and need God's grace. Knowing Jesus is the path, not a checklist of all the good and bad someone has done. I was raised Lutheran and DB was raised religiously as a born again Christian (has since usually practiced as a Baptist). We always both thought of ourselves as Christians, but there are still so many differences in practice. When we first started dating I remember discussing baptism for legit hours. While I believe in God, I have definitely struggled and questioned my faith. I think that is fairly common.
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSisterWife View Post
    Developing talents is huge. My mom is a well-known composer of LDS music (although a lot of it is used by other churches as well, she tries to keep most of it fairly generic-Christian in theme so it can be more generally used) so music has always been a HUGE part of my religious life. The church highly, highly encourages the pursuit of education, participation in the community, and finding and developing individual talents, be they music, art, writing, sports, public speaking, whatever. MoTab is amazing and I love them. We have lots of music in our meetings; we consider it one major way to increase the spirituality of gospel learning. I teach the kids ages 18mo-11 music during their "Sunday School" (we call it Primary) every week. I love it so much.
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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by PaUSMC View Post
    I agree that works are something you do because you have deep faith, but as a Christian (in my opinion) I believe that good works are not a "salvation issue". We can try to live by the Bible, care for others, and do good works and as followers of Christ we should. But we are all born sinners and need God's grace. Knowing Jesus is the path, not a checklist of all the good and bad someone has done. I was raised Lutheran and DB was raised religiously as a born again Christian (has since usually practiced as a Baptist). We always both thought of ourselves as Christians, but there are still so many differences in practice. When we first started dating I remember discussing baptism for legit hours. While I believe in God, I have definitely struggled and questioned my faith. I think that is fairly common.
    I think you’ve misunderstood what I mean a little? It’s not as though you put in tokens in the “good deeds machine” and get a prize when you’ve done it often enough! Not at all. Faith is still a necessary prerequisite.

    I mean...imagine for a moment that Jesus has given you a gift with no strings attached. He just has. You know this. It’s sort of a key aspect of the whole Christ thing!

    When someone gives you a gift, you get to choose how you respond to it, yes? Free will is a thing, and thus you choose. You can reject it. You can accept it but then take it home and never, ever touch it or use it again, so it just sits on a shelf getting dusty - something you have, but never take it down off the shelf. Or you can accept it and start putting it to use, sharing the gift around.

    Or if someone gave you money and said “here, I meant to give something to everyone”...you can refuse it, you can spend it all on yourself like an asshole, or you can buy something which you can share.

    Which of those choices would make the giver most happy to know you were doing it?

    Works are the actions of a person who’s accepted this phenomenal gift, understood its worth and consciously chosen to be generous with it. If we want to be close with Christ, then we should demonstrate how much we value the gift He gave us, no? It makes Him happy to see us do that, the same way anyone who gives a gift would be happy to know it was valued, used and shared.

    If someone values their faith deeply, then they’ll want to be close like that. They’ll want to use the gift, because it would make Him happy.
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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Matchbox View Post
    I think you’ve misunderstood what I mean a little? It’s not as though you put in tokens in the “good deeds machine” and get a prize when you’ve done it often enough! Not at all. Faith is still a necessary prerequisite.
    I don't know that I misunderstood, I just believe that faith is the ONLY prerequisite, rather than one of the necessary prerequisites. Good works are not the means they are the result of salvation. I think we just disagree on it, which would be totally normal because lots of Christian religions teach different interpretations of the Bible relating to salvation. I agree with everything you said, I am strictly speaking in terms of my opinion on salvation not that we should be good people (of course we should).
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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by PaUSMC View Post
    I don't know that I misunderstood, I just believe that faith is the ONLY prerequisite, rather than one of the necessary prerequisites. Good works are not the means they are the result of salvation. I think we just disagree on it, which would be totally normal because lots of Christian religions teach different interpretations of the Bible relating to salvation. I agree with everything you said, I am strictly speaking in terms of my opinion on salvation not that we should be good people (of course we should).
    It IS the kind of thing that a billion people can argue about for a solid two millennia, true...

    I mostly commented because I’ve heard some weird misconceptions about exactly where works fit in for Catholics, from people whose personal beliefs don’t think that works do or should fit in at all. The gold standard is that old chestnut about Catholics not being Christian, which is never going to stop being funny to me.

    I have no intent to persuade you to my point of view; even if I wanted to, I doubt that I could! It was for clarity only, since it’s something that confuses a lot of people.
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