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Thread: School Shooting in Florida

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    #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyCupcake View Post
    Yes, I agree with this. However, the problem is, that’s for those legally looking to obtain weapons. Does anyone know the percentage of people carrying out these shootings that applied for the weapons, got approved and used them? I don’t know what the answer is, but it’s scary.

    I saw an article today about a 17 year old who posted a snap chat saying he was going to recreate the Florida incident. Someone reported it and he was arrested. The police searched and found a pellet gun. He said it was a joke...Sick.

    I agree that some action needs to happen, but what is going to stop people who really want the end result? If it’s not guns, what if they start making home made alternatives?
    As of 2013, 80% of the weapons used in mass shootings were originally legally obtained. I say "originally" because in many cases, the shooter took them from the person by whom they were legally purchased- usually a parent. (https://www.motherjones.com/politics...shootings-map/) Full data including mass shootings up to this most recent one is here: https://www.motherjones.com/politics...nes-full-data/ This chart lists the origins of the weapons used. I don't think they've put legal/illegal into a bar graph yet, or I missed it somewhere. I haven't been through to count. But a HUGE number of the weapons used in mass shootings have been obtained legally, or stored where someone in the home had access who shouldn't have. The weapon used on Wednesday was legally purchased by the shooter. Because the FBI ignored reports about him, along with dozens of visits from police while he was growing up. And our current laws did not consider that ample enough information to restrict his ability to purchase an AR-15.
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    #12
    I was watching the news when it happened and seeing footage of those kids fleeing the school with their hands in the air was super upsetting. I don't know if I could've watched it if I were a parent.

    Watching the news this morning and I saw a report that Marco Rubio said he is open to discussions with dems about solutions ... hopefully that is a good sign but I'm still very cynical if much will change.

    I saw a quote from I believe a parent, and they were saying if 6 and 7 old kids getting gunned down wasnt enough to change anything, they didnt think their 16 and 17 year olds would be enough either. That just broke my heart.
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by amandalouwho2 View Post
    But the argument that someone who is hellbent on hurting others is going to make it happen, why do we not make it harder for them to make it happen? Because it may inconvenience a law abiding citizen? I would rather be inconvenienced by a background check or deeper evaluation to own a weapon that could kill someone rather than let actual bad people just walk into a store and buy a gun off the rack because it’s their 2nd amendment right. We own guns too in our home, we are educated on how they work, licensed to own the weapons and are responsible gun owners. I just think it’s silly that we let people walk around packing a weapon that they honestly may have no clue how to use. It’s not unreasonable to want to see stricter background checks and mandatory training to own a weapon. We have to be licensed and train to operate a vehicle but not a gun? Seems silly to me.
    Oh I agree. I just think some people think it’s an simple fix. Just make gun laws stricter. Yes it could help and we should, but it’s not the complete answer.
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by amandalouwho2 View Post
    The other argument I’ve seen today is how we need to make an effort to arm our educators. You won’t even give them allowances to buy school supplies but you want to start a gun budget are you joking?
    Also, what if teachers don’t want to be armed? I wouldn’t want that responsibility, I wouldn’t want a gun in my classroom and I wouldn’t want to be expected to use it to defend my classroom. That idea is just so utterly absurd to me I can’t believe anybody doesn’t feel dumb as fuck sharing it.
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Also, what if teachers don’t want to be armed? I wouldn’t want that responsibility, I wouldn’t want a gun in my classroom and I wouldn’t want to be expected to use it to defend my classroom. That idea is just so utterly absurd to me I can’t believe anybody doesn’t feel dumb as fuck sharing it.
    It is so insane to me. I’ve been working as a volunteer at my youngest’s school during an active shooter drill. Speaking of heartbreaking, watch some third graders climb out of windows. But anyway, no teacher has time for that. They are gathering 20+ little ones to safety. There is no time to unlock a drawer, get a gun, and John Wayne it out.

    The laws need tightening. Point blank. I walked into a building, filled out paperwork that wasn’t checked, paid $80, and got my concealed carry permit in Georgia. No class. No proof that I know what I’m doing. And my permit is held up in many states. When we lived in SC, there is a lengthy class for your concealed carry.
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojai View Post
    I was watching the news when it happened and seeing footage of those kids fleeing the school with their hands in the air was super upsetting. I don't know if I could've watched it if I were a parent.

    Watching the news this morning and I saw a report that Marco Rubio said he is open to discussions with dems about solutions ... hopefully that is a good sign but I'm still very cynical if much will change.

    I saw a quote from I believe a parent, and they were saying if 6 and 7 old kids getting gunned down wasnt enough to change anything, they didnt think their 16 and 17 year olds would be enough either. That just broke my heart.
    I've been saying this for years, too. How many more children have to die for things to change? It's ridiculous. And Rubio is a joke, he's bought by the NRA and I doubt he's going to do anything against what they want. Maybe he'll surprise me.

    Not to mention everyone's talk of "mental health solutions" ... okay, then why did Trump repeal Obama-era legislation for mental health checks when buying a firearm? It's so easy to get one, at least in the South. I can't rent a car until I'm 25 (even though I'm licensed to drive), but I could go buy a gun with my expired ID no problem.

    I saw a tweet yesterday that said, "When a piece of lettuce makes someone sick, we recall all the lettuce." Schools getting shot up? "But mah Second Amendment!!!"
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    #17

    freedom or security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matchbox View Post
    In many ways people want contradictory things. They want the FBI or associated agencies to be able to prevent every awful thing before it happens, but if asked “would you accept the feds watching you closely at all times?”, they recoil and go what the hell, NO.

    There’s real tension between the outcomes people wish they could have, and the inconveniences or intrusions they’re willing to accept.


    There is an old saying... if you give up 100% of your freedom I can give you 100% security.
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    #18

    instrument not cause

    Excellent point that we need to look beyond the gun laws and look at what we in the USA are doing (or not doing) that seems to be leading to an increase in school shootings. There is more than just the "guns kill people" argument as the reality is there are people who want to kill people and we have to work on solving the whole problem, not just the access to guns.
    If you handed the average person a machine gun they would not go into a school or church or movie theater and start shooting people.
    The gun is the instrument, not the cause.
    In addition to reconsidering our gun laws, we have to figure out what creates a school shooter.


    Quote Originally Posted by rocket_lizz View Post
    So I had an interesting talk with a coworker today. She's a clinical social worker, a psychological anthropologist (PhD) and has a lot of experience working with criminals, institutionalized persons (for mental health issues or otherwise) and also worked in a men's psychiatric hospital for political/war prisoners in Colombia for several years. She made the point that in a lot of these cases of mass shooters, they've been previously diagnosed (or would be currently diagnosable) with a pretty severe personality disorder and nearly always have had a prior incident with violence/police. Personality disorders, specifically anti-social personality disorder, is almost impossible to treat so even if they HAD access to mental health services, it's unlikely they would have used them or been changed in any significant way. Her idea is that, if we're going to be having a registry of everyone who has been diagnosed with a mental health disorder, we should specifically be screening for anti-social personality disorder, ESPECIALLY if they have ever had been in trouble in the past, and be doing a lot more to restrict these specific individuals from accessing any guns or weapons. Less than 1% of the population has severe anti-social personality disorders so if we're going to bother monitoring, it should be there. She doesn't believe that overall gun control laws are really necessary if we learn how to really keep an eye on the truly at-risk individuals and have multiple check and balances in place to keep track of them and their behavior.

    I don't know how this could work in practice, I don't know if we could discriminate on the basis of a specific disorder in terms of monitoring and restrictions. There's always ONE person who's going to be the sweetest angel. Or people would lie/fear getting diagnosed. So I'm not sure, but I thought it was a very interesting point from someone who has a lot of background in this area.
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    #19
    There are plenty of groups--groups formed by illegal activities so this wouldn't require some extra Big Brother level monitoring--that have shown a significant propensity toward illegal violence. Why don't we start by taking guns out of their hands? History of illegal violence (beat up a spouse, assault a rival sports fan at a bar...), lose your right to own a firearm. Either forever, or at least 5 years. Have a history of illegal behavior fueled by alcohol (DUI, theft while drunk, whatever)? Bye Bye guns for 5 years.

    Again, there are statistics to support that fact that people with these histories are far more likely to be violent, so why on earth would we give them permits to own firearms?

    It's a gross over simplification to say that they gun is just the instrument and the person is the cause. Because a person with a gun is able to be far more lethal, far more quickly and on a far larger scale.

    We can address this in ways well-supported by statistics, while still allowing law-abiding citizens access to firearms. Both sides just need to step away from the hyperbolic, divisive language and their own versions of utopia, in order to let some common sense guide a few basic policy changes.
    Science always wins over bullshit. ~Dick Rutkowski
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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by villanelle View Post
    There are plenty of groups--groups formed by illegal activities so this wouldn't require some extra Big Brother level monitoring--that have shown a significant propensity toward illegal violence. Why don't we start by taking guns out of their hands? History of illegal violence (beat up a spouse, assault a rival sports fan at a bar...), lose your right to own a firearm. Either forever, or at least 5 years. Have a history of illegal behavior fueled by alcohol (DUI, theft while drunk, whatever)? Bye Bye guns for 5 years.

    Again, there are statistics to support that fact that people with these histories are far more likely to be violent, so why on earth would we give them permits to own firearms?

    It's a gross over simplification to say that they gun is just the instrument and the person is the cause. Because a person with a gun is able to be far more lethal, far more quickly and on a far larger scale.

    We can address this in ways well-supported by statistics, while still allowing law-abiding citizens access to firearms. Both sides just need to step away from the hyperbolic, divisive language and their own versions of utopia, in order to let some common sense guide a few basic policy changes.
    Very well stated!

    It just appalls me that our government would rather do nothing than something. I get there is no simple way to approach this for some people and that the topic makes people uncomfortable but you know what’s more uncomfortable? Dead children. If that doesn’t make them want to do at least something I don’t know what will. But it’s been like this for years and it’s frustrating to see absolutely nothing happening.


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