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Thread: Pope Francis is the Catholic Church's Obama

  1. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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    #1

    Pope Francis is the Catholic Church's Obama

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    Pope Francis is the Catholic Church

    Pope Francis is undergoing a popularity surge comparable to the way Barack Obama was greeted by the world in 2008. And just as President Obama has been a disappointment for America, Pope Francis will prove a disaster for the Catholic Church.

    My fellow Catholics should be suspicious when bastions of anti-Catholicism in the left-wing media are in love with him.

    Much is being made of his ‘compassion’ and ‘humility,’ but kissing babies and hugging the sick is nothing new. Every pope in recent memory has done the same, yet only now are the media paying attention. Benedict XVI and John Paul II refused to kowtow to the liberal agenda, and so such displays of tenderness were under-covered.

    But Francis is beating a retreat for the Catholic Church, and making sure its controversial doctrines are whispered, not yelled – no wonder the New York Times is in love.

    Just like President Obama loved apologizing for America, Pope Francis likes to apologize for the Catholic Church, thinking that the Church is at its best when it is passive and not offending anyone’s sensibilities.

    In his interviews with those in the left-wing media he seeks to impress, Francis has said that the Church needs to stop being ‘obsessed’ with abortion and gay marriage, and instead of seeking to convert people, “we need to get to know each other, listen to each other and improve our knowledge of the world around us.”

    This softly-softly approach of not making a fuss has been tried before, and failed. The Second Vatican Council of the 1960’s aimed to “open the windows” of the Church to the modern world by doing just this.

    The result was the Catholic version of New Coke. Across the West where the effects were felt, seminaries and convents emptied, church attendance plummeted, and adherence to Church doctrine diminished.

    John Paul II and Benedict XVI worked hard to turn this trend around, but now Pope Francis wants the bad old days to resume.

    Proof of this is Francis’ aforementioned statement of the Church being obsessed with controversial issues and the need to rebalance by talking about it less.

    That Francis didn’t see that this would be translated into headlines of “Pope tells Catholics to shut up about things that offend Sandra Fluke” by every left-wing media outlet shows a terrifying naivety.

    Nor do his comments reflect reality.

    For years, the majority of priests didn't dare cover controversial topics in their homilies in fear of getting angry letters from pick-and-choose Catholics outraged that their pastor dared to say something out of line with the Democratic Party.

    Most parishioners therefore haven’t heard the Church’s argument on controversial topics. Consequently, usage of contraception is only slightly lower in Catholics than in the general population, and support of gay marriage is actually higher in Catholics than the general population. Perhaps talking about it even less isn’t the answer?

    In trying to please the media and the modern world, Francis mistakes their glee for respect. Just like Obama thought he’d won over Putin by promising a reset, Francis thinks by talking vacuously about the poor, he will be respected. And it is vacuous -- the pontiff recently asked why it’s news that the stock market drops but not when an old person dies. When your leader is asking, “Why isn’t the newspaper a laundry list of obituaries?” you know you elected the wrong guy.

    What effect is this having? For all we’re being told about how ‘disenfranchised’ Catholics are being brought back by Francis ‘reaching out,’ a recent Pew Research study showed that in America, the number of people who identify as Catholic has actually decreased. Lesson: rubbing the egos of Church-hating left-wingers doesn’t make more Catholics, it just makes the Church less respected.

    Francis not only panders to enemies and professional grievance mongers, but also attacks his allies. Just as Obama snubs Britain and Israel, Pope Francis swipes at practicing Catholics.

    So not only has he insulted, and severely damaged the work of, pro-life and pro-marriage groups with his comments, he has also gone on the attack, dismissing Catholics who attend the older rites in Latin as ‘ideologizing’ and being guilty of ‘exploitation.’ Apparently “Who am I to judge?” doesn’t apply here.

    On world matters, Francis’ statements are embarrassing. About communism, a destructive ideology that slaughtered millions of Catholics, he said:

    “Learning about it through a courageous and honest person was helpful. I realized…an aspect of the social, which I then found in the social doctrine of the Church."

    Not such kind words for the free market, however. In his recent apostolic exhortation he slammed unfettered capitalism, calling it ‘a new tyranny.’

    Apart from the fact that there is no major nation practicing unfettered capitalism (like Obama, Francis loves attacking straw men) there is more real tyranny in socialist cesspools like Francis’ home of Argentina than in places where capitalism is predominant.

    In the document he rejects the free market and calls for governments to overhaul financial systems so they attack inequality. In doing so he shows himself painfully misguided on economics, failing to see that free markets have consistently lifted the poor out of poverty, while socialism merely entrenches them in it, or kills them outright.

    Like Obama, Francis is unable to see the problems that are really endangering his people. Like Obama he mistakes the faithful for the enemy, the enemy for his friend, condescension for respect, socialism for justice and capitalism for tyranny.

    As a Catholic, I do hope Francis’ papacy is a successful one, but from his first months he seems hell-bent on a path to undo the great work of Benedict XVI and John Paul II, and to repeat critical mistakes of the past.
    My pastor posted this on FB today (full disclosure, he's not Catholic, neither am I) and I was kind of shocked by it. I mean, it *is* Fox News but still ...

    I really like Pope Francis and I have been feeling a lot more goodwill towards the Catholic Church lately, especially with his statements about homosexuality and his actions regarding punishing child abuse within the church. To me it doesn't seem like he is falling all over himself to apologize for the Church (although I also don't feel like Obama is falling all over himself to apologize for America, heh).

    So one thing that stood out to me, are people still really that pissed off about Vatican II? I mean I know people like Rick Santorum hate it but I thought that was a very small minority who feel that way.

    I guess I also wonder about the attendance issue too. Not that I follow the membership of the Catholic Church very closely, but it didn't exactly seem to me like people were converting in droves when Benedict was the Pope and then ran away screaming after Francis was appointed ...
  2. 1/2 hippie, 1/2 diva... all Jersey
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    #2
    I think it's b.s.

    Pope Francis is a Jesuit. Everything that I've heard of him doing, saying or espousing are very much in alignment with the idea that a life of service that honors the inherent human dignity of another person is our ultimate purpose and way through which we can give glory to God. The Jesuits have a saying-- All things for the greater glory of God. My experience with them has been that they focus less on the dogmatic ritual and more on the everyday "holy" encounters we have with others. The Catholic Church (IMO-- having grown up Catholic) is a business and inherently political. Pope Francis, doesn't seem to have much care for either of those things. And I'm ECSTATIC about it!

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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by sweetvanity View Post
    I think it's b.s.

    Pope Francis is a Jesuit. Everything that I've heard of him doing, saying or espousing are very much in alignment with the idea that a life of service that honors the inherent human dignity of another person is our ultimate purpose and way through which we can give glory to God. The Jesuits have a saying-- All things for the greater glory of God. My experience with them has been that they focus less on the dogmatic ritual and more on the everyday "holy" encounters we have with others. The Catholic Church (IMO-- having grown up Catholic) is a business and inherently political. Pope Francis, doesn't seem to have much care for either of those things. And I'm ECSTATIC about it!
    Oh hey, I think I you
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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by sweetvanity View Post
    I think it's b.s.

    Pope Francis is a Jesuit. Everything that I've heard of him doing, saying or espousing are very much in alignment with the idea that a life of service that honors the inherent human dignity of another person is our ultimate purpose and way through which we can give glory to God. The Jesuits have a saying-- All things for the greater glory of God. My experience with them has been that they focus less on the dogmatic ritual and more on the everyday "holy" encounters we have with others. The Catholic Church (IMO-- having grown up Catholic) is a business and inherently political. Pope Francis, doesn't seem to have much care for either of those things. And I'm ECSTATIC about it!
    Okay, well you saved me from typing almost the same stuff.

    I love him. I think he's fantastic.
  5. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by sweetvanity View Post
    I think it's b.s.

    Pope Francis is a Jesuit. Everything that I've heard of him doing, saying or espousing are very much in alignment with the idea that a life of service that honors the inherent human dignity of another person is our ultimate purpose and way through which we can give glory to God. The Jesuits have a saying-- All things for the greater glory of God. My experience with them has been that they focus less on the dogmatic ritual and more on the everyday "holy" encounters we have with others. The Catholic Church (IMO-- having grown up Catholic) is a business and inherently political. Pope Francis, doesn't seem to have much care for either of those things. And I'm ECSTATIC about it!
    I remember that being talked about during the conclave (that he is a Jesuit!). Actually I'm pretty sure I remember someone saying a Jesuit would never be Pope.

    My feelings toward Benedict weren't horrible or anything, but the more I learn about Pope Francis the more I like him.
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    #6
    I love the new Pope. My husband grew up Catholic - Catholic school and all! - but stopped going to church as he got older. Lately he's been talking about going back and I would consider going with him if I could be guaranteed the person preaching would be like the pope


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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by sweetvanity View Post
    I think it's b.s.

    Pope Francis is a Jesuit. Everything that I've heard of him doing, saying or espousing are very much in alignment with the idea that a life of service that honors the inherent human dignity of another person is our ultimate purpose and way through which we can give glory to God. The Jesuits have a saying-- All things for the greater glory of God. My experience with them has been that they focus less on the dogmatic ritual and more on the everyday "holy" encounters we have with others. The Catholic Church (IMO-- having grown up Catholic) is a business and inherently political. Pope Francis, doesn't seem to have much care for either of those things. And I'm ECSTATIC about it!
    Ya this. I think he is amazing. I love that he has been sneaking out of the Vatican at night dressed as a plain priest and going to help and talk with the homeless. I think that is just awesome. He seems like a bit of a rebel and I like it.
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    I do think the media is playing him up, and they may have ulterior motives in doing so, but I don't think that's why HE does things the way he does. I think he leads the way he believes to be right, and I admire him for it. He can't control what kind of statements media uses his actions to make. I think he's great, and y'all know I'm not Catholic.
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    #9
    I'm confused... The article is making it seem like Francis is getting more favorable media attention than his two most recent predecessors. While Benedict's papacy was short lived he didn't seem particular popular (or unpopular) with the media, but I would say John Paul II had favorable media coverage and was well liked and respected by most people...

    Maybe I just don't follow these things closely or something, idk.
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    #10
    SweetVanity said it all, and much more eloquently than I could. Quite frankly, I LOVE what he is doing for the Catholic Church, and I want him to keep doing it.
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