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Thread: s/o Living Wage Discussion, What wage does anyone deserve?

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    #1

    s/o Living Wage Discussion, What wage does anyone deserve?

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    I've been thinking on and off about the concept of living wages trying to come to terms with where I stand. My knee jerk reaction is , but I am trying to show empathy and understand the other side.

    Are people entitled to a minimum wage and what should that be?
    Do people deserve a moral wage?
    Is it fair that people with minimal skill sets are bringing to the table the idea they get paid more than people who have more skills, demands, or responsibilities?
    Where does personal responsibility belong the work and wages discussion?


    Personally, I'm at the point where if I don't make as much money as I think I deserve then its my own dang fault. I'm frustrated that others want to blame businesses for their lack of income. Why not make a plan, put the work in, and walk the new path? I am struggling with the idea that life is so unfair the society should make allowances for some people's life choices. What am I missing to see why all jobs deserve a living wage?
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    #2
    Yes, I think minimum wage is a good idea because I don't believe that most businesses would fairly compensate workers otherwise. I have no idea what it should be, though. More than the 7.25/hr that we have now, but far less than the 15/hr some individuals are asking for. If I were to give a number I'd like to see it close to the 9/hr that Obama was asking for nationally. But I'd even be okay with not increasing the min wage and instead tying it to inflation so that as inflation increases, worker's wages are increased to match it.

    I'll have to think about the rest of your questions.
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    #3
    People deserve equivalent payment for the service that they provide to the company. If they are a stock broker, then they will get paid more than a burger flipper. If they are a veterinarian, then they will get paid more than a shelf stocker. If they are an intelligence professional, then they will get paid more than a waitress. Supply, demand, and experience necessary to effectively fill the position combine to calculate one's wage.
    I do not that think by gracing us with your presence alone, you should earn a comfortable wage to live on at 40 hours/week. If you want to earn more, then learn a trade, get an education, work multiple jobs, work your way up to management in what you're in, etc.
    I do think that there should be a minimum wage, but I don't think that it needs to be raised from what it is.
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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by katinahat View Post
    People deserve equivalent payment for the service that they provide to the company. If they are a stock broker, then they will get paid more than a burger flipper. If they are a veterinarian, then they will get paid more than a shelf stocker. If they are an intelligence professional, then they will get paid more than a waitress. Supply, demand, and experience necessary to effectively fill the position combine to calculate one's wage.
    I do not that think by gracing us with your presence alone, you should earn a comfortable wage to live on at 40 hours/week. If you want to earn more, then learn a trade, get an education, work multiple jobs, work your way up to management in what you're in, etc.
    I do think that there should be a minimum wage, but I don't think that it needs to be raised from what it is.
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    #5
    I don't agree with a national minimum wage. I could live on much less (like 50% less) where I live now than I could live on where I lived three weeks ago. I don't think minimum wage should take family size into account at all- it should be the minimum amount required for one person, working full time, to reach a certain standard of living in their area. Without including consumer debt. What should the equation include? Local rent average for a studio apartment, local utility averages, a modest car payment and reasonable estimate of local fuel costs... basically, minimum wage should cover minimum needs.

    So... by my definition, it's quite possible "minimum wage" would NOT make ends meet for many people's preferred lifestyles. I don't think it should, really, because where's the incentive to better oneself if the bare minimum is good enough? If you want more, you need to do more. More easily said than done, but not impossible.

    What jobs should pay minimum wage? Entry-level jobs requiring little to no education, qualification or training prior to accepting employment. Once the appropriate training and qualification is attained, the wage should increase according to the employee's value to the business.

    I think the biggest problem with minimum wage is the last part- too many businesses without the integrity to assign appropriate value to employees, and too many employees willing to sit back and place the blame on said businesses instead of moving on when they realize they aren't valued as they should be. If enough people who were truly worth more than they were being paid didn't stand for it, those places would start to see the costs of continual turnover and training and pay more appropriate wages.

    And there are not enough jobs. But if more people were making (and therefore spending) more money... there would be more jobs. It's a vicious cycle we're caught in.
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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by SingWeJoyous View Post
    I don't agree with a national minimum wage. I could live on much less (like 50% less) where I live now than I could live on where I lived three weeks ago. I don't think minimum wage should take family size into account at all- it should be the minimum amount required for one person, working full time, to reach a certain standard of living in their area. Without including consumer debt. What should the equation include? Local rent average for a studio apartment, local utility averages, a modest car payment and reasonable estimate of local fuel costs... basically, minimum wage should cover minimum needs.

    So... by my definition, it's quite possible "minimum wage" would NOT make ends meet for many people's preferred lifestyles. I don't think it should, really, because where's the incentive to better oneself if the bare minimum is good enough? If you want more, you need to do more. More easily said than done, but not impossible.

    What jobs should pay minimum wage? Entry-level jobs requiring little to no education, qualification or training prior to accepting employment. Once the appropriate training and qualification is attained, the wage should increase according to the employee's value to the business.

    I think the biggest problem with minimum wage is the last part- too many businesses without the integrity to assign appropriate value to employees, and too many employees willing to sit back and place the blame on said businesses instead of moving on when they realize they aren't valued as they should be. If enough people who were truly worth more than they were being paid didn't stand for it, those places would start to see the costs of continual turnover and training and pay more appropriate wages.

    And there are not enough jobs. But if more people were making (and therefore spending) more money... there would be more jobs. It's a vicious cycle we're caught in.
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    #7
    I think there should be a living wage. But I think that term needs to be far more narrowly defined. It doesn't mean that for 40 hours of work you should make enough to afford a 3 bedroom apartment, care for your 2.5 kids, drive a new car every 5 years, and have a iphone. It means you can feed and clothe and shelter yourself, and get a bus pass to get to work, and maybe have enough left at the end of the month to go to a matinee movie.

    I think a national minimum wage prevents utterly unreasonable working conditions and employers trying to take advantage of desperate people who would rather make $1/hr than $0/hr. But I think talk of numbers like $15/hr is crazy.
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    #8
    I mostly agree with Villa. I think the minimum wage should better reflect the actual cost of living. And I think anyone working 40 hr/week should be able to make a basic living wage.

    For example, if I break down what I consider reasonable for a living wage for San Diego:
    750$ month rent- studio apartment in the shittiest, most drug ridden part of town
    150$ month bills- electricity, water, gas, trash fee, renters insurance (usually required), and a basic cell phone/landline (necessary for holding a job, imo)
    125$ month for bus fees- (5$ per day, use 25/30 days per month)
    100$ month food- some food is cheaper here, some is more expensive. Does not include eating out.
    50$ month for health insurance/copays- approximately what I would need if I were on CA's medicaid
    100$ month for other- shoes, clothes, household items, toiletries, cleaning supplies, paying for resume to be printed at the library, etc
    50$ month for saving so that you can someday move to a safer neighborhood/invest/go to school
    -----------------
    =1325$ needed per month. CA minimum wage is 8$/hr which equals only 1280$/month BEFORE TAXES. So I think in this case the minimum wage should be raised to at least 10.75 an hour.
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by rocket_lizz View Post
    I mostly agree with Villa. I think the minimum wage should better reflect the actual cost of living. And I think anyone working 40 hr/week should be able to make a basic living wage.

    For example, if I break down what I consider reasonable for a living wage for San Diego:
    750$ month rent- studio apartment in the shittiest, most drug ridden part of town
    150$ month bills- electricity, water, gas, trash fee, renters insurance (usually required), and a basic cell phone/landline (necessary for holding a job, imo)
    125$ month for bus fees- (5$ per day, use 25/30 days per month)
    100$ month food- some food is cheaper here, some is more expensive. Does not include eating out.
    50$ month for health insurance/copays- approximately what I would need if I were on CA's medicaid
    100$ month for other- shoes, clothes, household items, toiletries, cleaning supplies, paying for resume to be printed at the library, etc
    50$ month for saving so that you can someday move to a safer neighborhood/invest/go to school
    -----------------
    =1325$ needed per month. CA minimum wage is 8$/hr which equals only 1280$/month BEFORE TAXES. So I think in this case the minimum wage should be raised to at least 10.75 an hour.
    Do you think all states (where cost of living is lower) should raise it to that much?
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Amanduh View Post
    Do you think all states (where cost of living is lower) should raise it to that much?
    No I think each state should be responsible for taking the cost of living into consideration. Some states may not have much public transit so I think they should include the cost of a cheapish car and gas. and the minimum wage should always account for inflation, I think.

    San Diego is kind of the middle for price for CA, I think. LA and San Fran are much more expensive and someone making 10.75 there would struggle, but in one of the farming communities they would be able to get a 2 bedroom and afford a kid maybe.
    ETA: I think people should make enough to not need public aid. Public aid should be for special situations such as job loss, injury or illness, employers downsizing and cutting hours, needing to support elderly family members, etc.
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