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Thread: The gender wage gap is largely a myth

  1. Just another guy
    WarSnoopy's Avatar
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    #1

    The gender wage gap is largely a myth

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    So before I get into it, Ive had this discussion with a couple of other forum goers in small spats but nothing solely dedicated to this. So why not give it its own thread neh? Im going to bombard with citations as well so expect a moderately large post.

    Do wage gaps exist? Yes. Are they rare? Yes. Do they exist in both directions? Yes.

    To start I will provide a youtube video laying out some of the basic ideas why this gap doesn't really exist.

    Women Are Paid Less Than Men Not Because of Discrimination - YouTube

    Pay attention to the end where she points out how heavy handed law making trying to fix this mythical issue can hurt women.

    Furthermore :



    This next source is a study commissioned by the government :

    Of the many factors that account for differences in earnings between men and women, our model indicated that work patterns are key. Specifically, women have fewer years of work experience, work fewer hours per year, are less likely to work a full-time schedule, and leave the labor force for longer periods of time than men.
    http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d0435.pdf

    This following source is a localized example of women earning more than men just keep in mind the article also fallaciously brings up the Department of Labors median wage comparisons so disregard that portion :

    But now there's evidence that the ship may finally be turning around: according to a new analysis of 2,000 communities by a market research company, in 147 out of 150 of the biggest cities in the U.S., the median full-time salaries of young women are 8% higher than those of the guys in their peer group. In two cities, Atlanta and Memphis, those women are making about 20% more. This squares with earlier research from Queens College, New York, that had suggested that this was happening in major metropolises. But the new study suggests that the gap is bigger than previously thought, with young women in New York City, Los Angeles and San Diego making 17%, 12% and 15% more than their male peers, respectively. And it also holds true even in reasonably small areas like the Raleigh-Durham region and Charlotte in North Carolina (both 14% more), and Jacksonville, Fla. (6%).

    Here's the slightly deflating caveat: this reverse gender gap, as it's known, applies only to unmarried, childless women under 30 who live in cities. The rest of working women even those of the same age, but who are married or don't live in a major metropolitan area are still on the less scenic side of the wage divide.

    Study: Young, Single, Childless Women Earn More Than Men - TIME

    Lastly :

    If you think about it in reverse, and believe that women do earn about 25% less than men based off of Department of Labor media incomes how do their male counterparts ever find a job? Why should I not fire my 8 men in my work force and hire 10 women instead for the same amount of payroll? Wouldn't I seemingly raise my potential productivity by doing so? Its one of the main arguments proponents use for outsourcing. Why not outsource all American male held jobs into women, and get the same work for less? Because I believe its largely a myth that women earn less in the same positions when experience, education, and time served are equal.


    With all this being said let me see what you think MSOS
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    #2
    Some of what you posted is crap.

    Men don't work longer hours than women, in fact more women work longer hours than men.

    Men don't take the weekend jobs over women, women will take whatever job they need.

    I don't agree that women choose teaching/education and other lower paying jobs over men.

    The statistics are false because you have to take each career differently. A 'median' salary means nothing because of the diverse kind of jobs there are. Take my career field for example, IT, to this day (20 years later) men STILL get paid more than women, even women with higher level degrees and experience get paid less than men.

    Women have come very far and many get paid more now than they have in the past. And there are career fields in which women do get paid more than men, but its rare.

    Your examples are all focused on men, IMO, and don't have a woman perspective.

    One of the few places I know where men and women get paid equal is the military, because its based solely on rank, regardless of gender.

    There are 10 types of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't
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    #3
    First of all I can't sit through the video you posted because I can't listen that girl speak. Secondly I'm a prime example that women are paid less than men in the exact same position.

    I'm currently working as the Shipping/Receiving manager of a Drill pipe sales company, when I came to this company I was the "Plant Administrator" basically everyone's b**** and the only female in the office. The guy whom I worked closest with quit, I moved up into his position (which I'd all but taken over anyway) and when I asked for a raise was still only given half of what he was being paid. He did not have more experience than me as he'd just started the job 2 months before I came in, he did not do a better job than me as it was mentioned many times I should be moved into his position and he should be demoted to the shop. However, he was making $60,000/year even with my raise I'm only making 70% of that. I'm a young, educated (I have my BS from Texas A&M) and hard working female who does not get the respect my predecessor got, because I'm female I'm looked at as a secretary that can do more than what's expected.

    I'm not saying my circumstance is the norm but I do feel that women are treated differently simply for being women, we're expected to be more motherly and take care of the men in the office when in fact that's not our job. I've seen it in most every job I've had.


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    #4
    Educational jobs are not based on Gender.. but it's overwhelmingly flooded with women. I would agree with most of what you posted, WarSnoopy.. I think the gender wage gap is likely a farce.
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by WarSnoopy View Post
    Lastly :

    If you think about it in reverse, and believe that women do earn about 25% less than men based off of Department of Labor media incomes how do their male counterparts ever find a job? Why should I not fire my 8 men in my work force and hire 10 women instead for the same amount of payroll? Wouldn't I seemingly raise my potential productivity by doing so? Its one of the main arguments proponents use for outsourcing. Why not outsource all American male held jobs into women, and get the same work for less? Because I believe its largely a myth that women earn less in the same positions when experience, education, and time served are equal.
    To address this.. the reason is because there are mostly males in charge and they don't feel a woman can do a man's job. The point is, woman should get paid the same amount as men, therefore there wouldn't be a need to hire 8 women in the place of one man. Not only is it demeaning its ridiculous. A woman is just as qualified as a man. Gender should never come into play but it does. And as long as there is a male in charge, he will continue to think men deserve more. (This of course isn't all men)

    There are 10 types of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't
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    #6
    It really depends on which set of data you look at. The above is cherry picking just like looking at only Census data is also cherry picking. To say it's an outright myth is hokum.

    I would argue that we should be more concerned with why men/women end up in the jobs they do; is there gender bias in the actual hiring process? That to me seems like the right debate to have here. I used to work for a woman who basically hired all females and it was a terrible environment....
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    #7
    What about being able to get jobs in those fields? My friend has an engineering degree, did an internship and could only get an entry level job with the FDA (after 2 years of applying for jobs). Her fiance just graduated, is making $100,000/year with the same internship and degree.... I think statistics can be swung one way or another, but there's still gender inequality.
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TrishAFSpouse View Post
    Some of what you posted is crap.

    Men don't work longer hours than women, in fact more women work longer hours than men.

    Men don't take the weekend jobs over women, women will take whatever job they need.

    I don't agree that women choose teaching/education and other lower paying jobs over men.

    The statistics are false because you have to take each career differently. A 'median' salary means nothing because of the diverse kind of jobs there are. Take my career field for example, IT, to this day (20 years later) men STILL get paid more than women, even women with higher level degrees and experience get paid less than men.

    Women have come very far and many get paid more now than they have in the past. And there are career fields in which women do get paid more than men, but its rare.

    Your examples are all focused on men, IMO, and don't have a woman perspective.

    One of the few places I know where men and women get paid equal is the military, because its based solely on rank, regardless of gender.
    Everything you posted seemingly runs contrary to my posting - but has no citations.
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    #9
    Perhaps women take more dangerous, and "work longer hours" if more men started taking care of the children.

    Also, have you ever read the book Blink? Or any of that sort? It specifically addresses high paying business jobs, CEO jobs, and why those hired are mostly tall white men. Women aren't choosing to not be in high paying jobs, they're applying. They're just not being hired.


  10. "If you don't like my attitude, quit talking to me"
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by WarSnoopy View Post
    Everything you posted seemingly runs contrary to my posting - but has no citations.
    That's because i have better things to do than find more facts that support women do actually get paid less than men.

    Why do you instead find better facts instead of posting one sided ones. Doing a 'median' income for all 147 major cities is crap because there is too much diversity in jobs.

    I'm here to tell you by personal experience that in my career field women still get paid less than men (as i have mentioned). I'm not the only career field.

    I was just telling you, your facts are crap and one-sided (male sided) and I won't take the time to find better facts because i don't want to.

    There are 10 types of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't
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