Is Abraham (biblical) a murderer or a knight of faith?

[Gillian_Angela]

I'm not going to lie, sometimes I'm disgusted with Abraham, sometimes I admire him.
Here's the story if you are not familiar

Some time after the birth of Isaac, Abraham was commanded by the Lord to offer his son up as a sacrifice in the land of Moriah. The patriarch traveled three days until he came to the mount that God taught him. He commanded the servant to remain while he and Isaac proceeded alone to the mountain, Isaac carrying the wood upon which he would be sacrificed. Along the way, Isaac repeatedly asked Abraham where the animal for the burnt offering was. Abraham then replied that the Lord would provide one. Just as Abraham was about to sacrifice his son, he was prevented by an angel, and given on that spot a ram which he sacrificed in place of his son. Thus it is said, "On the mountain the Lord provides." As a reward for his obedience he received another promise of a numerous seed and abundant prosperity. After this event, Abraham did not return to Hebron, Sarah's encampment, but instead went to Beersheba, Keturah's encampment, and it is to Beersheba that Abraham's servant brought Rebecca, Isaac's patrilineal parallel cousin who became his wife.[21]

So....Is there an absolute duty to god...where you suspend your moral/ethical judgement?

Regardless, Abraham suspended his moral/ethical judgement and was GOING to KILL his son because God told him to.

If God told you to do something...would you do it knowing it was morally/ethically wrong? What if you didn't pass your test of faith?

This story is utilized in Soren Kierkegaard's "Fear and Trembling" when he lays out the Teleological Suspension of the Ethical.

He claims in life you go through 3 states:

1) Ascetic: Selfish stage of life that is concerned with pleasure and beauty. Think Sex, Drugs and Rock & Roll
2) Ethical: Next stage you enter into...adulthood, children, work, responsibility. There is more to life then what was in the Ascetic.
3) Religious: a temporary state where you leave the ethical and you take a "leap of faith"

[palemoon21]

hmmmmmmmm, I don't really know. I'll have to think about it and get back to this post.

[USCsemperfi]

I believe the Old and New Testaments are extremely different.
I believe in these times Abraham did what he did to prove his faith, and because he did God spared the sacrifice.

God was to be feared and you had to prove your faith.

Now, after the sacrifice of Jesus...the perfect sacrifice. We did not have to prove our faith and love to God in such a way.

So to answer the question, yes I believe at the time Abraham showed his faith in the most extreme way and God used him for great things.

[Aunt Sponge]

I'm neutral on all tragedies form the Bible and myths.
The Bible seems very "Ancient Greek" in some ways - animal sacrifices and the ownership of slaves and the lesser value of a child in regard to God.

So, if Abraham is a traditional Greek he did the traditional thing - offering up some type of sacrifice even if the brad isn't there for such a purpose. Along with sacrificial offerings they also believed that God was "pleased" by such acts as well as angered when he didn't receive an offering - very traditional for the culture and timeframe.

So, it's hard not to, but you just can't apply modern standards to ancient beliefs. For their time period he was very traditional and well-in tune with their customes and religious practices.

In his timeframe he was a faithful believer of God, followed God's commandments and, in that regard, he was a knight of faith.

[Gillian_Angela]

But this is the only time in both the Old & New Testament where there is mention of human sacrifice by another human.

Jesus was murdered by the Romans for political reasons, not based on faith.

The Blessed Virgin however is an example I believe of the knight of faith....she bore God a son, and was given the title of Mother of God aka mother of mankind.

But could you imagine was was going on in Mary's head? Not only did she concieve a child out of wedlock, but an angel came to her and said.."you will bear God's son". If an angel came to me..I'd have to make sure I wasn't crazy before I told people.

However, what is the difference then between fundamentalists today, who claim "god told them" to blow up a building all the people inside. How do you know the difference?

[Aunt Sponge]

Human sacrifices were done occasionally in some cultures and frequently in others.

However - I consider God "giving up his only begotten son to die on the cross" to be a human sacrifice of sorts, though many contest that theory.

I think, though, that the story is suppose to prove Abraham's loyalty to God, however crass it might seem. In a way it's proving that he's worthy of the life he lived and the role he carried in the Bible.

[leftover]

However, what is the difference then between fundamentalists today, who claim "god told them" to blow up a building all the people inside. How do you know the difference?

Before the Pentecost, there was no Holy Spirit to speak to people, God did it directly... with words.. That's not how it's done by Him anymore, and it hasn't been done by Him that way in 2000 years.

I believe that those people ARE hearing voices telling them what do, but they aren't hearing The Almighty... It's a deceiver they hear.

[Mrz. Robinson]

I believe what he did as right in that time frame. He showed God that he had faith in him an was rewarded for it.

As for these days I don't believe that God would test our faith like he did Abraham, He states that we need to obey the laws of the lands, and this is muder in our land. He would test of other ways but I beleive it will be to avoid the temptation.

[Aunt Sponge]

Encyclopedia Mythica: mythology, folklore, and religion. is an incredible site for researching various myths and religions, etc. However, it does lack several stories of the Bible - this being one of them.

After thinking about it some more I started to theorize that there wasn't actually any real threat of Abraham actually sacrificing Isaac. They attributed their feelings and desires to God, and he would never lead one of his flock astray, and so perhaps, to prove a point, God intended for Abraham to try to sacrifice his son as a setup for the message - faith in God will never lead you in harm's way.

Perhaps it's not focused on Abraham, but on Isaac. How did he feel about it? He didn't seem to fight about it, much, or try to flee. Instead, he prayed to God about it (didn't he? I haven't really read about it in so long). So instead of it being Abraham's issue and bringing him into question maybe it proves that if you have faith in God then he will never lead you to danger (as in - he spared Isaac from being sacrificed).

[USCsemperfi]

Originally Posted by Gillian_Angela But this is the only time in both the Old & New Testament where there is mention of human sacrifice by another human. Jesus was murdered by the Romans for political reasons, not based on faith. The Blessed Virgin however is an example I believe of the knight of faith....she bore God a son, and was given the title of Mother of God aka mother of mankind. But could you imagine was was going on in Mary's head? Not only did she concieve a child out of wedlock, but an angel came to her and said.."you will bear God's son". If an angel came to me..I'd have to make sure I wasn't crazy before I told people. Also I believe fundamentalists today are brainwashed. I also agree with leftover. However, what is the difference then between fundamentalists today, who claim "god told them" to blow up a building all the people inside. How do you know the difference?

It was a test of faith. No one was murdered for faith, God just wanted to test his willingness.

In the book of Job, God allowed Satan to take his whole family to prove to Satan that Job would stay faithful.
So technically I believe his family was sacrificed for faith.