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Thread: Islam and the Muslim

  1. Darkly Dreaming Dexter
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    #1

    Islam and the Muslim

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    Anyone who is Muslim or knows a lot of facts about Islam and care to answer questions and shed light?

    A few posts, lately, have raised questions and issues (around here and in other places) and I thought that maybe - those who care to - could actually come to understand this very misunderstood religion/culture.

    Here's one:
    Why does it seem that Muslim men so openly subjugate and disrespect women? Not just on a personal, family level but socially and legally as well.

    And another:
    Are all Islamic-followers called "Muslims"
    Stupid question but it's confusing. Can you be "Muslim" and not Islamic? Can you be Islamic and not a Muslim? Or are they two unrelated things?
  2. Cookie Queen
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    #2
    I don't know if it's mostly Islamic men, or men that live in the Middle East and are Islamic, but (my own speculation based on information that was handed to me) women are there for procreation and men are there for recreation. They aren't valued aside from being breeders.
  3. Darkly Dreaming Dexter
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    #3
    Yeah, that's how a lot of people view them - but is that REALLY how they are? Or, much like WE are portrayed wrong overseas - is this just a misunderstanding from a lack of knowledge or even a prejudice/label.
  4. Amy
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    #4
    I'm taking a class on sex and religion and we do focus on gender issues as well- Islam is next, so I'll tell ya what I find out then.
  5. ahimsa
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    It depends on what exactly you are talking about. I don't study religion much, but being covered is their version of being modest and respectable. I mean, most Christian women don't wear stripper gear in public. They are just more conservative than we are about it.

    I personally think that our culture degrades women in many ways, too. It's very easier to be an outsider and judge another culture. Meanwhile, think about how women are depicted in ads in America. As women we are told (message from society) from the moment we are a teenager that if we aren't skinny, long-legged, big-boobed, beautiful models then we are worthless. Think about the Victoria's Secret models. Is that really what our culture expects of women? Imagine what an outsider believes about how Christians treat their women?

    And I don't want to bring this up as a debate, but women in Europe enjoy much more "freedom" than American women do. Nudity is not even a big deal. Neither is religion. They think we are repressed here because we freak when our politicians are caught cheating on their wives and still argue about abortion. Those things are personal matters and considered nobodies business over there. They wonder why we are so concerned about these things.

    I suggest if you would like to know you do more research about the religion to find out what it is all about. The important thing to remember is that you can't really "liberate" people from a religion that they are born into and choose to participate in. When Catholicism was not so prevalent in America we stormed the Nunnery and tried to "liberate" the nuns who weren't allowed to have sex (we forgot the vow of chastity is a choice) Of course the nuns were pissed. Same thing when they banned polygamy. They told the women they were free to leave their husbands and their marriages were no longer valid and the women were mad because to them, it was their family and their life choice.

    Islam isn't bad, I've read the Koran a few times. It actually seems quite similar to Christianity to me. All religions can be used in a terrible way to justify atrocious acts.
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    Hey, I'm Catholic, but this is what I learned in my world religion class last semester.
    The first question is, it depends on some countries. And the way I see it, some don't "disrespect" women, women just fall into the "lets do what are our men asks us to do" catagory. But then a lot of countries are getting better letting their women make their own decisions. The country Jordan lets their women do as they please, because since they have a woman running the country. Egypt, Morocco, Lebnan, and United Arab are also countries that are pretty laid back with letting their women do what they want. I mean, now, they have let their women sing, and be on music videos/movies. They wear the same clothes you'd see artists here wear-it's not any different. You get to see a lot of women doctors, lawyers, and such as apposed to back then. So they really have jumped a huge gap!

    And question 2, this might surprise you, but there's the "radical muslims" and there's "true muslims" Those who are radical aren't true to their religions. They just kill and make themselves think that's what God put in the book (Quran) Muslims to me are the most docile creatures known to man. If you ever meet a muslim face to face, you'd see such puriness, it's unbelievable! You know the saying that a smile is contagous (sp?) Well, they are so pure, you just want to do whatever it takes for you to be like them. I believe that the media has showed the side of the religion to the worst. They showed that all Muslims are like that, but they aren't. Those who claim to be one, aren't one. They are far from it. A true muslim would not harm a fly. They pray 5 times a day, every Friday, it is a must that you have to do something for the homeless. Whether to feed him, clothe him, or give him money, one must do this. Everything they do, they do it with such honesty. Whatever the media is showing us, they aren't muslims, they are monsters. I hope this clears everything up. And if you have anymore, let me know.
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    #7
    [QUOTE=vivalacrap;2751419]It depends on what exactly you are talking about. I don't study religion much, but being covered is their version of being modest and respectable. I mean, most Christian women don't wear stripper gear in public. They are just more conservative than we are about it.

    I personally think that our culture degrades women in many ways, too. It's very easier to be an outsider and judge another culture. Meanwhile, think about how women are depicted in ads in America. As women we are told (message from society) from the moment we are a teenager that if we aren't skinny, long-legged, big-boobed, beautiful models then we are worthless. Think about the Victoria's Secret models. Is that really what our culture expects of women? Imagine what an outsider believes about how Christians treat their women?

    And I don't want to bring this up as a debate, but women in Europe enjoy much more "freedom" than American women do. Nudity is not even a big deal. Neither is religion. They think we are repressed here because we freak when our politicians are caught cheating on their wives and still argue about abortion. Those things are personal matters and considered nobodies business over there. They wonder why we are so concerned about these things.

    I suggest if you would like to know you do more research about the religion to find out what it is all about. The important thing to remember is that you can't really "liberate" people from a religion that they are born into and choose to participate in. When Catholicism was not so prevalent in America we stormed the Nunnery and tried to "liberate" the nuns who weren't allowed to have sex (we forgot the vow of chastity is a choice) Of course the nuns were pissed. Same thing when they banned polygamy. They told the women they were free to leave their husbands and their marriages were no longer valid and the women were mad because to them, it was their family and their life choice.

    Islam isn't bad, I've read the Koran a few times. It actually seems quite similar to Christianity to me. All religions can be used in a terrible way to justify atrocious acts.[/QUOTE]

    This is so true...I forgot to mention that. Thank you

    Plus, Muslim is what you call the person and Islam is what the religion is called. Just like Christian is what you all the person and Christianity is the religion...Understand?
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    #8
    When everyone thinks of Islam and Muslim, they connect them to the middle east. But the biggest Islamic country in the world is Indonesia and not one of the middle east country. I think people use religion to make excuses for their behavior, but it's more of the culture. This does not include the radical muslims that use religion to create and cause mayhem.
    Women in Islam are not only consider breeders as someone mention above. I think it's just a misconception that MEN have instill into the society and that have been expected from a women. Muslim-majority countries give women varying degrees of rights with regards to marriage, divorce, civil rights, legal status, dress code, and education. You just don't hear this stuff because the only stuff that comes out are the bad situations. In a family unit, Islam favors the mother highly. There is a saying that "heaven is at the feet of your mother". As for beating wives and treating them rude. Islam doesn't let you do that. Men are suppose to protect their wives or the female in their family. The mistreatement that occurs to women, are not because of religion, it's because of Men's nature to treat women and use religion as an excuse. I think alot of the stuff that comes against women based on religion is not something that was written in the beginning but was changed as the time goes by to benefit the views of men. Like the Burqa, people always assume that religion emphasizes that you have to cover from head to toe to your face. But history and research that I have read shows that the reason they use to cover their face was because of sandstorm and that it was to cover their eyes from the sand. And not because of religion. But men change that.

    By the way, my beliefs might be different from a conservative muslim. I am more liberal in my views of islam. I don't agree with some of the sharia law.
  9. Darkly Dreaming Dexter
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    #9
    Good post, so far - thank you
  10. Not even the Army can shatter my spirit.
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by sharine25 View Post
    As for beating wives and treating them rude. Islam doesn't let you do that. Men are suppose to protect their wives or the female in their family.
    First, I'd just like to state where my views are justified...I dated a Lebanese Muslim for 4.5 years. He was born in the USA, raised in Lebanon until he was 19. I also dated a Lebanese Muslim for 3 years before that who was born and raised in the USA and had only visited Lebanon once in his life. Let me tell you..... two COMPLETELY different men in their treatment of women and interpretation of Islam. Secondly, I've studied Islam by reading various books and even reading and interpreting parts of the Quran. I am by no means an expert, but I do feel I understand the religion differently than those around me who have never had this exposure that I've had.

    Apologizing in advance if this gets long...
    Islam is the name of the religion, Muslims are the followers. Muslim actually means "to submit" and so Muslims are submitting to God's will for them to follow his word. Thats the answer to your 2nd question.

    My view on the first question is biased because I was horribly verbally, mentally, and emotionally abused by my 2nd ex (the 4.5 yr from Lebanon). He made me live over there twice and told me that the woman follows her man. I agree with Sharina that the men are supposed to protect their wives, and he did protect me as his girlfriend. But he controlled me. I wasn't allowed to go out and have friends, I wasn't allowed to read any other book except the Quran, I wasn't allowed to have more than one set of earrings in each ear. Since he didn't drink, I wasn't allowed to. Although he did gamble and that's not allowed in Islam I don't believe. I couldn't get tattoos although he wanted them. This was just one of his double standards that were frequent throughout our relationship. Are all Muslim and/or Lebanese men like this? No. But there are a great majority that are. I can't tell you why they do this because I couldn't figure it out. I tried to understand it, but my stubborn head kept telling me I needed to regain my independence and my life from him.

    There were lots of times where it was his way or no way because he was "trying to protect me" and there were also times that if I spoke against something he was saying, he would get angry and just cuss me out until I cried and left the room. His treatment was awful and when I was living there, I saw other women endure this treatment too.

    Sometimes I thought that perhaps Arab men have bad tempers because they are so steadfast in their beliefs. The men I encountered in Lebanon were very passionate about their personal values and self-image. You learn to never compromise those things when it comes to Arab men. Now Arab women? I've met SO MANY sweet women. There has never been a rude, nasty, or condescending mark made by an Arab woman in my presence. I suppose maybe that's why I believe its based on temper in relation to their values and respect....

    I'll answer whatever questions I can if anyone has them. Please keep in mind that I'm answering these based on my own experiences so I would like to try and not generalize all of the Arab world within my answers.
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