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Thread: No Homeschooling in CA?

  1. Wah Its called life idiot
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    #1

    No Homeschooling in CA?

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    what are your thoughts?

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../2008/03/07/MN

    (03-07) 04:00 PST LOS ANGELES --

    A California appeals court ruling clamping down on homeschooling by parents without teaching credentials sent shock waves across the state this week, leaving an estimated 166,000 children as possible truants and their parents at risk of prosecution.

    The homeschooling movement never saw the case coming.

    "At first, there was a sense of, 'No way,' " said homeschool parent Loren Mavromati, a resident of Redondo Beach (Los Angeles County) who is active with a homeschool association. "Then there was a little bit of fear. I think it has moved now into indignation."

    The ruling arose from a child welfare dispute between the Los Angeles County Department of Children and Family Services and Philip and Mary Long of Lynwood, who have been homeschooling their eight children. Mary Long is their teacher, but holds no teaching credential.

    The parents said they also enrolled their children in Sunland Christian School, a private religious academy in Sylmar (Los Angeles County), which considers the Long children part of its independent study program and visits the home about four times a year.

    The Second District Court of Appeal ruled that California law requires parents to send their children to full-time public or private schools or have them taught by credentialed tutors at home.

    Some homeschoolers are affiliated with private or charter schools, like the Longs, but others fly under the radar completely. Many homeschooling families avoid truancy laws by registering with the state as a private school and then enroll only their own children.

    Yet the appeals court said state law has been clear since at least 1953, when another appellate court rejected a challenge by homeschooling parents to California's compulsory education statutes. Those statutes require children ages 6 to 18 to attend a full-time day school, either public or private, or to be instructed by a tutor who holds a state credential for the child's grade level.

    "California courts have held that ... parents do not have a constitutional right to homeschool their children," Justice H. Walter Croskey said in the 3-0 ruling issued on Feb. 28. "Parents have a legal duty to see to their children's schooling under the provisions of these laws."

    Parents can be criminally prosecuted for failing to comply, Croskey said.

    "A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation as a means of protecting the public welfare," the judge wrote, quoting from a 1961 case on a similar issue.
    Union pleased with ruling

    The ruling was applauded by a director for the state's largest teachers union.

    "We're happy," said Lloyd Porter, who is on the California Teachers Association board of directors. "We always think students should be taught by credentialed teachers, no matter what the setting."

    A spokesman for the state Department of Education said the agency is reviewing the decision to determine its impact on current policies and procedures. State Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O'Connell issued a statement saying he supports "parental choice when it comes to homeschooling."

    Brad Dacus, president of the Pacific Justice Institute, which agreed earlier this week to represent Sunland Christian School and legally advise the Long family on a likely appeal to the state Supreme Court, said the appellate court ruling has set a precedent that can now be used to go after homeschoolers. "With this case law, anyone in California who is homeschooling without a teaching credential is subject to prosecution for truancy violation, which could require community service, heavy fines and possibly removal of their children under allegations of educational neglect," Dacus said.

    Parents say they choose homeschooling for a variety of reasons, from religious beliefs to disillusionment with the local public schools.

    Homeschooling parent Debbie Schwarzer of Los Altos said she's ready for a fight.

    Schwarzer runs Oak Hill Academy out of her Santa Clara County home. It is a state-registered private school with two students, she said, noting they are her own children, ages 10 and 12. She does not have a teaching credential, but she does have a law degree.

    "I'm kind of hoping some truancy officer shows up on my doorstep," she said. "I'm ready. I have damn good arguments."

    She opted to teach her children at home to better meet their needs.

    The ruling, Schwarzer said, "stinks."
    Began as child welfare case

    The Long family legal battle didn't start out as a test case on the validity of homeschooling. It was a child welfare case.

    A juvenile court judge looking into one child's complaint of mistreatment by Philip Long found that the children were being poorly educated but refused to order two of the children, ages 7 and 9, to be enrolled in a full-time school. He said parents in California have a right to educate their children at home.

    The appeals court told the juvenile court judge to require the parents to comply with the law by enrolling their children in a school, but excluded the Sunland Christian School from enrolling the children because that institution "was willing to participate in the deprivation of the children's right to a legal education."

    The decision could also affect other kinds of homeschooled children, including those enrolled in independent study or distance learning through public charter schools - a setup similar to the one the Longs have, Dacus said.

    Charter school advocates disagreed, saying Thursday that charter schools are public and are required to employ only credentialed teachers to supervise students - whether in class or through independent study.
    Ruling will apply statewide

    Michael Smith, president of the Home School Legal Defense Association, said the ruling would effectively ban homeschooling in the state.

    "California is now on the path to being the only state to deny the vast majority of homeschooling parents their fundamental right to teach their own children at home," he said in a statement.

    But Leslie Heimov, executive director of the Children's Law Center of Los Angeles, which represented the Longs' two children in the case, said the ruling did not change the law.

    "They just affirmed that the current California law, which has been unchanged since the last time it was ruled on in the 1950s, is that children have to be educated in a public school, an accredited private school, or with an accredited tutor," she said. "If they want to send them to a private Christian school, they can, but they have to actually go to the school and be taught by teachers."

    Heimov said her organization's chief concern was not the quality of the children's education, but their "being in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety."
    Further Research: http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions...ts/B192878.PDF



  2. He's my popeye, but I'mnoOliveOyl!
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    #2
    hmm... Cam will go to public school anyway, because I want her to get the socialization. We'll supplement her education during the summer, but I fully intend on keeping her in public school where ever we move to.

    I have nothing against homeschooling, as long as the parents are following a curriculum and the kids are learning what they need to learn. (my little sister is homeschooled, and I don't think she's learning all that she should..)

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    I think it is pure and utter crap. Who is to say that all kids should be raised exactly to the standards the government thinks they should? I don't like it, I guess that what I'm trying to say. It is fine for them to step in to make sure everyone is safe, but this is taking it too far!
    By the by, where I lived in CA the schools weren't bad, but I would be angry if someone told me I can't homeschool my kids here.


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    #4
    I am so torn on the homeschooling issue. I think that a lot of people use it to indoctrinate their kids and stop them from being exposed to the real world which is SO dangerous and harmful to children. BUT, on the other hand I don't think that the government should have absolute control over how people raise their children either. It gets sticky when it comes to children's rights because parents have rights too, and kids aren't considered "citizens" in all of the ways that adults are.

    Tricky.
  5. Wah Its called life idiot
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    #5
    I'm torn too.

    Part of me believes that alot of parents use Homeschooling as a way of sheltering their children from the real world. "babying" them from socialization, etc.

    Another part of me believes that public education, private or public is the way to go.



    But ultimately parents need to be more accountable for their teachings. It's sad when parents put of education for a week or so because they are lazy or busy with other things. Education should be a DAILY activity.



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    Homeschooling doesn't have to be anti-social though, it all depends on how parents choose to homeschool. The public homeschool charter school I work for is great, and although there are some 'wacky' homeschool families, I really don't believe that is the norm. The students in our program are extremely intellegent and innovative students, who are currently winning awards for different projects at the national level, such as our Robotics Team and Mock Trial team. Our students, although homeschooled, have MANY opportunities for enrichment through field trips and student clubs, as well as learning center classes. And our students turn out to be extremly well rounded kids who excell where they were never able to in regular public school.

    I think homeschooling in general just gets a bad rap, its one of those things where a few bad apples mess it up for everyone else. I strongly feel homeschooling is about families really wanting to be involved in their child's education and allowing them to flourish in ALL their talents without the restrictions that a public school will always put on them. I can give you at least 5-10 stories off the top of my head of fantastic success stories of students that were failing in the public school system and completely flourished in the homeschool setting.

    With all that said, Homeschooling is NOT for everyone. Some families just don't have what it takes to homeschool or just don't have the time. Homeschooling is a very time consuming lifestyle, and parents need to be dedicated to their child's education in order for it to be successful.
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    There will be a lot of pissed off parents that homeschool and they( the govt) won't win this. As long as children are being monitored by a charter school or something I see nothing wrong with it. I know many kids who are turning out to be wonderful due to homeschooling! School shouldn't be about socialization, it should be about education. I don't homeschool my kids yet, I did for preschool and prek though. We are seriously thinking about homeschooling our youngest though, and if we do we will do it thru one of the homeschool charters.
    I know someone who is moving from Poway to Murphy Canyon and will be homeschooling all 5 of her children now. Her hubby is an Officer in the Navy and they don't want them in the public schools and to put them in private will be to expensive. They will be doing a charter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdshorty View Post
    Homeschooling doesn't have to be anti-social though, it all depends on how parents choose to homeschool. The public homeschool charter school I work for is great, and although there are some 'wacky' homeschool families, I really don't believe that is the norm. The students in our program are extremely intellegent and innovative students, who are currently winning awards for different projects at the national level, such as our Robotics Team and Mock Trial team. Our students, although homeschooled, have MANY opportunities for enrichment through field trips and student clubs, as well as learning center classes. And our students turn out to be extremly well rounded kids who excell where they were never able to in regular public school.

    I think homeschooling in general just gets a bad rap, its one of those things where a few bad apples mess it up for everyone else. I strongly feel homeschooling is about families really wanting to be involved in their child's education and allowing them to flourish in ALL their talents without the restrictions that a public school will always put on them. I can give you at least 5-10 stories off the top of my head of fantastic success stories of students that were failing in the public school system and completely flourished in the homeschool setting.

    With all that said, Homeschooling is NOT for everyone. Some families just don't have what it takes to homeschool or just don't have the time. Homeschooling is a very time consuming lifestyle, and parents need to be dedicated to their child's education in order for it to be successful.
    Thank you that couldnt of been said any better. My oldest would actually really benefit from being homeschooled, it would help him a lot. I just don't have the resources I don't think to do it with him.
    What school are you working for? We did the CA Virtual Acad. before and I LOVED IT. And yes homeschool groups are very socialized, the thing is they get to pick who the kids are they socialize with.
  9. La Xicana
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    I work for a charter school in San Diego, I can PM you the name
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by sdshorty View Post
    Homeschooling doesn't have to be anti-social though, it all depends on how parents choose to homeschool. The public homeschool charter school I work for is great, and although there are some 'wacky' homeschool families, I really don't believe that is the norm. The students in our program are extremely intellegent and innovative students, who are currently winning awards for different projects at the national level, such as our Robotics Team and Mock Trial team. Our students, although homeschooled, have MANY opportunities for enrichment through field trips and student clubs, as well as learning center classes. And our students turn out to be extremly well rounded kids who excell where they were never able to in regular public school.

    I think homeschooling in general just gets a bad rap, its one of those things where a few bad apples mess it up for everyone else. I strongly feel homeschooling is about families really wanting to be involved in their child's education and allowing them to flourish in ALL their talents without the restrictions that a public school will always put on them. I can give you at least 5-10 stories off the top of my head of fantastic success stories of students that were failing in the public school system and completely flourished in the homeschool setting.

    With all that said, Homeschooling is NOT for everyone. Some families just don't have what it takes to homeschool or just don't have the time. Homeschooling is a very time consuming lifestyle, and parents need to be dedicated to their child's education in order for it to be successful.
    Very well said. We just started homeschooling for my DD. She is very social. She is active in Girl Scouts as well as the kids in our neighborhood and church. We decided this is best for us because I don't really care for the school system here in San Diego. DD had 38 children in her class. That is way to much. We are doing the CAVA school. It is K12. My DD is still required to take the state test and she also has a teacher that checks in with us to see how we are doing. This program is run through the state so I am hoping that we will not have to stop this. My DD loves it.
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